What Is the Mature Feminine? Lover Archetype

Transcript:

Hey guys, it's C.S. Joseph with csjoseph.life doing another episode, arguably the final episode, of season 13 today. The last episode we did in season 13 we we're talking about the mature masculine and the mature masculine lover archetype specifically. And since we haven't done an episode for the season in a while, let me just remind everyone this is based on Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette's work "King, Warrior, Magician, Lover". And what we've done is basically take those same psychological archetypes for the mature masculine and made them available in the form of "Queen, mother, matron, lover" etc. for the mature feminine archetypes, basically. And just to give the female perspective of the psychological archetypes according to Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette's theory. So, I've been waiting to do this episode for a little bit because I needed to study up on some concepts first just to make sure that the information that I am providing is accurate and wholesome and meaningful. I didn't want to shoot from the hip on this one because when it comes to any of the feminine lectures I go out of my way to pay extra attention to it especially, you know, when it comes to seasons 4, 6, and 13. Never in my life have I been labeled a misogynist or a chauvinist or you know an anti-feminist more in my entire life. It's kind of interesting how people have knee-jerk reactions to these lectures and they don't even bother finishing them all the way through. But I mean, yeah who can blame them right? They're only too long right? "Too long." And because they're too long it's kind of, you know, frustrating. I get that, you know, if a video is too long or something, or a lecture or a podcast is too long, you know definitely not something to invest your time in and that's your business, but they're long for a reason. It's because, you know, we got to go into depth here. And besides statistically speaking the whole, "Oh, you should only have your videos be like 11 to 18 minutes long on YouTube." Yeah, that went away. That's like not even real anymore. Like not even remotely real. So, how do we deal with that given that that's not a real thing anymore? Because like what's actually real is people are, you know, watching entire episodes of 60 minutes long more on average on YouTube now. So, you know, just look it up. That's why YouTube started releasing their own television shows with YouTube Red etc. to compete with Netflix and other streaming platforms, but be that as it may, that's not relevant to this discussion.

 

3:07 - So, the lover archetype. So, the mature feminine lover archetype is very different from the masculine one. The masculine one is basically predominantly all about enjoying life, right? It's all about enjoying life and loving life, but the feminine approach to life is different. I would say that's likely because women in general by default already go out of their way to enjoy life on their own. It's like they have the male version of the lover archetype already pre-built into their psyche and they just they just go with it. You know, they enjoy a lot of the small things in life, you know, getting their hair done, nails, good food, good entertainment, dancing, movies, just enjoying life in general that, you know, they're all about getting away, going on a vacation, or just doing something special, right? They're not really prone to workaholism it's actually extremely rare among females whereas, it's a lot more common with males. And I would argue from the lover archetype point of view, that makes a lot of sense because males specifically, when it comes to you know workaholism, that's why they're called to enjoy life, take a moment, stop what they're doing, actually enjoy life, you know, cuz that's what workaholism does and it gets in the way of them enjoying life. I'm even guilty of it myself. Actually, I was recently criticized by somebody that I sacrificed too much and maybe I should be spending more time focusing on outcomes, right? Okay, yeah fair enough. You know, they're right. Definitely right about that. So, it ends up becoming like a yin and yang balance equilibrium between work-life balance, right? It's the same thing and that's what the lover archetype about the mature masculine is all about Taking time to enjoy life while not being an addicted lover or an impotent lover at the same time. The female approach, the mature feminine approach, to the lover archetype is completely different. It's a different approach and I think that's because, you know, women when they get into their addicted lover or their impotent lover, they're really coming at it from a point of view, a different point of view, and that point of view is revelry. Women by and large like to revel. They like to revel in life and, you know, how they go about reveling life or how they approach revelry is different between, you know there's 16 types, which of the Jungian 16 archetypes they are. But you know, in this self-important society where everyone is focused on themselves more so than other people because there's a lack of trust for their fellow man, there's a lack of love basically for your fellow man, or your fellow women, etc. you know, within our race, within our species, basically. Yeah sure, and because of that it's caused people to be like well, you know, "I'm just gonna look out for number one because it doesn't benefit me to look out for anyone else" but conversely speaking, they're probably entirely lacking self-respect which inhibits their ability to be responsibly selfish and if you're not being responsibly selfish, if you're not taking care of yourself, then what business do you have loving somebody else if you can't love yourself first, right? That's the whole point, you know, love your neighbor as yourself.

 

6:59 - But in terms of the female archetype, the lover archetype, the wrong way of going about it is revelry. Revelry is consistent, it is absolutely consistent, amongst feminine behavior. You know a lot of women out there, oh yeah, they're down for a good time. A lot of women out there are really great, you know, some of them are all about giving and some of them are all about taking, but men predominantly, you know, oftentimes are confronted with the impotent lover or the addicted lover when it comes to women. And one of the ways it comes out is, you know, like my ESTP mentor for example, he taught me a concept of relating to the lover archetype in women and that's, "There's these women man. They're like all over the place. I just don't know what it is, but they just do this consistently. They want all the benefit but none of the responsibility man, and it's so frustrating like why am I wasting my time? Sometimes I feel like it's better for me to not have anything to do with women at all because they just on the take, they just consistently on the take, you know? They want all the benefit but none of the responsibility." You know so, that's a very male perspective. As to whether or not that's true for you as you're watching this lecture, okay, that's fine it may not be true. That would make you, you know, mature, right? If you really are acting in the mature feminine you don't do that. But if you're immature, if you're you know dealing with the addicted lover or the Impotent lover as a shadow archetype of the lover archetypes, then yeah, then you definitely be on the take in some way, you know. It's where that self-love that someone needs, as love your neighbor as yourself would dictate, goes too far, you know, a lot of people they don't love themselves enough. They don't have enough self-respect. But then on the other side, a lot of people have too much love for themselves to the point where they're narcissistic, right? And I would mention that narcissism, in of its own right, is pretty related to my ESTP mentors’ point, you know, about women, especially immature women, so immature women, right? Prefacing that. They want all the benefit and none of the responsibility and quite frankly that's where revelry comes. That's where revelry comes and you know if a man is in a relationship with a woman, he doesn't want a woman who's committed to revelry, or who commits revelry, consistently. He wants a woman who does something else, something very profound and it's this profound idea that becomes the foundation for the lover archetype as we know it.

 

9:57 - So, what is this idea? Well, it's actually a really hard idea because quite frankly it flies in the face, It really flies in the face, of feminism. Because feminism would dictate that, you know, the female gender is the stronger gender of the two. That, you know, it's all about, you know, female pride and female being really good in the workplace, etc. Although it's funny because Elizabeth Warren, and I can't believe I'm even talking about Elizabeth Warren because I'm definitely not a fan but I got to give credit where it's due, she wrote a book in the early 2000s about how women or mothers entering into the workplace is going to spell disaster for the United States of America and I completely agree. It's probably one of the biggest threats to the Republic because not only that, not only are mothers not being at home, we already have fathers not being at home. You know, either because they're working or because the fathers just disappeared, right? But with women entering the workplace, by and large as mothers well then, the children are just raised by the state and we know what happens when that happens, right? That's outlined in the mother archetype lecture of this lecture series. So, how do we deal with that? Like, how do we how do we get in front of that? What do we do? Well, we have to protect the mother archetype, right, but it really comes down to how do we maintain the lover archetype. How do we prevent revelry from being the standard for women as we know it? So, revelry... Well, it really comes down to this one idea. Revelry, where you revel, like it's kind of like a form of debauchery, but not like actually debauchery, it's more of like you revel in the good times, you revel in the good things of life, you're only focused on the good things of life. I mean, how many times do we hear women talk about their men it's like, "Oh he enjoys the finer things in life. It's all about the finer things guys." You know what I mean? Like the finer things. They're so focused on the finer things that they're oblivious to the not fine things, the not so good things, to the point where they judge men that if there is flaws with these men, if there is no finer things to these men, then these men obviously have no value right? They're not worth loving, right? Well, that's what happens when you're focused on revelry. That's what happens when you take the good things of life for granted. That's the problem. The addicted lover of the feminine lover archetype, the addicted lover, they're addicted to the finer things. They're addicted to, you know, and they maintain that as a standard. They maintain that as a standard especially when it comes to men because if men are not able to deliver them the finer things, they won't have anything to do with them. Its revelry. Its revelry and you take those things away from them, well, then the relationship falls apart. I'm sorry, but we live in a life where things fall apart. That's why, you know, when you're doing marriage vows, it's like, "in sickness and health" right? It's, "for richer or poorer". It's dealing with all of these negative things in your life, etc. And it's funny because so few people even take those vows seriously. They really really just don't take them seriously because if they did take them seriously, their actions would be completely different, you know, and that's the point. That's the point every time.

 

13:58 - So, what do we do? Like, what's the decision then? Well, don't be addicted to the finer things. Recognize that bad things happen in life. Bad things happen to good people. It's very important. Jordan Peterson talks about this in Chapter 7 of his book "12 rules for life". He talks about doing what is meaningful and not expedient. I have to say that the addicted lover, as the shadow type of the lover archetype of the mature feminine, it definitely is about doing what's expedient. It's about potentially finding a man who, you know, it's like that gold digger, basically. You know, people talk about women being gold diggers, well that's the addicted lover of the mature feminine lover archetype although, it's not mature. It's immature. That's the difference. The shadow types are immature. So, how do you how do you reach that maturity? How do you solve the addicted lover archetype and make it into the true lover via the mature feminine? How do you do that? Well, look at it this way. There's another component to it. There's the impotent lover, the woman who's apathetic the woman who's like I'm not worthy, you know, and she ends up reveling in herself. She ends up having revelry not for the finer things of life, but revelry for all the negative things in life. It's the complete other extreme. It's the complete other side of the coin, right? So, what do you do at that point? That's where you get the women who live in anxiety. That's where you get the women who don't really... They revel in their pain essentially. They don't feel that they're worth it. They don't feel that they're worthy, you know, and then they end up clinging to God and religion, you know, because, "God's gonna save me because I'm not gonna save myself." I mean have they not heard the saying, "God helps those that helps themselves." Right? and maybe if they did, they’d have, you know, a better approach to it. They'd have a better life, but for some reason they don't, right? It's because their mind is in the wrong place—the impotent lover. and that's what causes the female to have so much doubt, this woman [has] so much doubt in herself, where she doesn't even bother. She doesn't bother putting on makeup, she doesn't even bother getting her hair done, she doesn't even bother taking responsibility for meeting her own needs, etc. And it's almost as if she's selfless in such a way, selfless not in a good way, selfless as in she has no sense of self because she's like, "Me being a self is not worthy." and then as a result of that she cannot love herself. And because of that lack of love for herself, that causes a lot of problems.

 

 

16:59 - It's like, so for example, these women who are the impotent lover, because of that lack of self-love because they feel like they're not worthy, they become codependent. Which by the way if you haven't read the book "Codependent No More" by [Melody] Beattie, you need to. Seriously you need to because that book is like literally the female version of, "No More Mr. Nice guy". "Codependent No More" you need to read that book, especially if you're in the impotent lover archetype, right? Because if you're an impotent lover like one of my ENFP friends, for example they were in a relationship with an ISTJ for many many many years before they finally had faith in themselves, before they finally found worth in themselves, to move on to bigger and better things and greater men, etc. Because she finally realized that, "Yes I actually am worthy and I have to value myself to make myself worthy." right? Very very important. Another example, my ex-wife she was in a relationship with me, a loser, we were married for 11 years, you know, and she still struggles with that codependence, you know, consistently and as she did throughout our marriage, right? Now she's a lot more independent. She's got a very nice job. She's getting a house. She's in a lot better position. She's parenting our children. She's going in a new direction in her life and it's very fantastic, but it took her so long. It took her to get into her 30s before she realized that she was actually worth something. Now what causes the impotent lover? Well, abuse. Quite frankly abuse, trauma, you know, it's the women who've just been battered down by life and beat down by life, the women who are in consistent pain by life and dealing with pain of life and lack the support structure or the mental tools to deal with pain of life, and that could also include fatherlessness. For example, there's a woman in my life whose father when she wasn't even born tried to get her aborted basically and then her mother told her that one day in front of her father just to get back at her father. And that whole statement has completely crushed her. Crushed her to the point where she's an anxious mess in a lot of ways because she can't deal with the fact, you know, that her own father, that manly figure that was supposed to be there, that was supposed to care about her, just didn't. Just flat out did not. And she carries that pain with her every single day and that contributes to the impotent lover, the immature form of the feminine archetype the lover, consistently. What does she do right? Well, when you when you're walking around not feeling good enough, not feeling beautiful enough, not feeling pretty enough, not feeling humble enough, not feeling good enough, or worthy enough for any man quite frankly, that turns into an endless repeated cycle of bad relationships. Codependent relationships. It could even turn into drug use to try to cope with the depression that comes as a result. The impotent lover of the feminine is all about depression. It's all about being defeated and it's self-defeating and not only that, it leads to a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is a Self-fulfilling prophecy because these people are literally selfless. So, think about that for a second. Selfless. It's not that they're being selfless in a good way, it's just they have no sense of self. The self itself is not so real to them. That's the problem. The self needs to be real and they struggle with that.

 

20:54 - I would argue that Fe users, especially high Fe users in women, are more likely to be a part of the impotent lover, right, than the addicted lover. Whereas, but that's not necessarily true because some High Fi users I've noticed also struggle and suffer in the same way. But it's especially bad with Fe heroes and parents when it comes to the impotent lover because they just already lack the mental tools to value themselves properly through introverted feeling. They already lack Fi so because of that, it's really hard for them to value themselves properly and they look for external sources of validation especially from their fathers, more so than anyone, when they're little girls. But if they don't have that validation, they do not value themselves which leads to the impotent lover, right? You look at it the other way around when they are overvalued, over valued by their fathers or overvalued or given everything, and they become selfish because they have that high expectation then they become the addicted lover, right? And again, it's revelry. They revel in the finer things in life whereas the the impotent lover revels in the negative things of life, pain of life. It's still revelry with women. It's still revelry. They are, they're being, gosh, what's the term? It's like they're being ravished, ravished in the finer things, ravished in their own selfishness and that leads to gold-diggerism. Or they're being ravished in pain and it leads to this self-defeating attitude consistently, right? So, how is it these women are actually able to deal with this pain of life or deal with the fact that they are addicted to the finer things and are selfish gold-diggers for example? How do women deal with this? What's the proper path? Well, the proper path is the mature feminine, the lover archetype. How does a woman gain the lover archetype itself? How does she deal with being the impotent lover or the addicted lover or both? Does she oscillate between both, is she just primarily one or the other, is one primary versus secondary? Who knows? But it's still a consistent problem. How does she deal with it? How does she mature?

 

23:22 - Well the answer, instead of revelry, the key to gaining the mature feminine lover archetype is this and it's a controversial idea, but it is what it is. And here's the truth: reverence. Reverence. Women need to learn to revere life not revel in it. That's the truth. Revelry is what causes the impotent lover and the addicted lover. Reveling in the really positive, the good things, the fine things of life, or reveling in the pain of life, right? The self-defeating part of life. But reverence, where women learn to revere life, that's the difference. That's what it means. So,what is revering life mean? It means having deep respect for life. Deep respect for themselves. Very deep, deep respect for life to the point where they're grateful. An ENFJ recently told me something. An ENFJ woman told me something very profound. She told me I need to stop looking at what I'm not and start looking at what I am. It was very profound. I'm thinking to myself, "Yep I am so going to be mentioning that on my lover archetype lecture because damn that's good." you know, she ain't bullshitting. She's telling the truth. The fact of the matter is that women need to realize what they are, who they are, and not what they are not. Oftentimes women look at each other and it's that, you know, that pie of life as I've said before. And yeah, you know, men they see the pie of life and they just want to get their own slice for themselves, their own kingdom, their own aspect of it, their own domain. Women look at at the pie, they get their slices, and then they look at each other it's like, "Well, why do you get that slice? Why is yours bigger than mine?" Right? And they compare each other to each other, and it becomes a competition right? It's a problem. It's selfish and it's arrogant. They lack that humility, right? Well, if you are going to life in reference and you revere life as we know it, then you're valuing life properly. You're not being impotent, and you're not being addicted because you're revering life. Why? Because you are thankful. Because you're thankful for what you have, you're grateful, you're showing gratitude, you are not taking what you have in life for granted, which is the hallmark of the addicted lover. They're taking all the good things in life for granted, right? Get this, the impotent lover is taking all the bad things in life for granted. Think about that. Like that's a super deep concept where women have to realize, "Wow I'm taking all of my pain and life for granted." They really are because they just expect more pain to come just like people who take the good things of life for granted, they expect the good things to always come to them every single time.

 

26:42 You know, a friend of mine is married to an INFP woman and he told me like, you know, when they first got married she had this expectation, this constant expectation, that, you know, after getting married everything was just gonna be perfect, marital bliss, all of her needs and wants and dreams are going to come true. It's like this Disney Princess point of view, you know what I'm saying? And because of that she just became lazy. She just had that addicted lover mindset, "I've made it. I don't have to work anymore. I don't have to try to make myself beauty any more, beautiful anymore." and then she lets her body go, you know, and it's just like wow, where's the self-respect? Where's the reverence? Where is the reference? Where is not taking life or love for granted, right? Or pain for granted? See, that's the thing. Women need to realize when they're being immature in the lover it's all about taking the good and the bad for granted. It happens consistently. We need to make sure that our women out there in this culture, in first world culture, first world society, actually everywhere, third world society, it doesn't matter, that they are not taking life for granted. The good or the bad. It's absolutely critical because if they revere life, if they understand exactly what to be thankful for, and it's not about just being thankful for the good things. It's not about that. Why? I'll be straight like I used to live in a garage for a long time. I was homeless. I had to deal with some serious problems in my life. I've had abuses. I've been up front about that. I've been a victim. I've been taking advantage of consistently. I've been gullible. I have all these huge hang-ups that I've had in my life, and I've been upfront about those with this audience basically from the beginning and I slowly reveal more and more and more over time. Well, here's the issue though, bad things happen. You can't avoid them, you know. You have to realize that it's important to not just take them for granted, but it's also important to revere the bad things in life. Revere the struggles and the obstacles that you have faced. Why is that? Because think about it, would I trade my pain? Would I trade my pain for anything in the world? No. No I would not because the fact that I have been abused, the fact that I had dealt with homelessness, the fact that I dealt with financial ruin multiple times, building companies and they would rise and then they'd fall and it's just constant constant endless stream of failure and failure and failure and failure and failure and failure, but I gained wisdom as a result of all of that failure. I became a better man because of that failure. Women become better women because of failure, because of pain of life. Okay. So, be thankful for your pain, be thankful for your suffering because it makes you into a better woman. That's the point. Be thankful for what you have. Be thankful for the good in your life and be thankful for the pain in life because your pain in life has taught you, made you into a diamond. Yes, you're flawed. But you're still a diamond. The most precious substance on the earth, right? The most precious substance, the hardest substance, the most beautiful substance, physical substance, on the earth and that's you, right? You are literally treasure and that treasure was able to become into being because of the pain in your life. So, be thankful and be grateful for your pain and as much as you are thankful and grateful for your husband or your house or your zip code or your dog or your mother who was always there with you even though your father wasn't or your father who was always there for you even though your mother wasn't. Who knows what it is, but there is definitely something you as women could be thankful for and not take for granted. You have to realize you can't take anything for granted. You have to revere it. It's very very important, right?

 

31:02 - So, the addicted lover also ends up becoming, you know, very, like here's another negative component of the addicted lover, because they're so focused on the finer things, they become super seductive. The addicted lover ends up having, you know, and females ends up having lover after lover after lover. They end up, you know, going from man to man to man because they expect to have the good times. They always expect to have the good things coming to them because they were probably given everything as children. Who knows? And they always have that expectation that good things come to them and they take those good things for granted and when a man all of a sudden loses his job one day because of an economic downturn, because of circumstances outside his control, you know, oh, wait "for richer or poorer", right? No that woman, because she's like basically a gold digger, dumps him on his head and moves on to the next one and the next one and the next one and the next one and never stops to think that those men might actually be real men and not man children. That those men are just victims of their circumstances and not actually, you know, it's not their fault, right? You know? Or the impotent lover, someone who's so defeated by the pain in her life that she becomes frigid, right? That's basically someone who has no sexual desire. And guess what? That was my ex-wife and guess what? She was frigid. She absolutely was frigid. It's one of the reasons why we got a divorce because she was frigid. It's because she was so defeated because she did not feel worthy. She did not feel good enough. She felt ashamed consistently as a result of the abuse in her life that she was like, "I'm not good enough to do this so I'm not going to do it at all." Right? And it became a consistent problem over and over and over and over, right? That is a big deal. It's a consistent issue and that leads to the impotent lover, right? But a woman who has reverence instead of revelry, instead of reveling in her pain or reveling in the good times, right? "If it feels good do it", right? Instead of reveling in those things, but she is focused on revering life, being thankful for life, not taking life for granted, that is a woman of value. That is a woman who is mature. That is the mature feminine the lover archetype. That woman, that's a woman that I want. A woman who does not take her pain, who does not take the good things of life, for granted. A woman who humbles herself and has a deep profound respect for life and for what she has and for who she is. That is the woman that I would desire to make my queen. That is a woman that I would desire to be my lover. Right? And guess what? It's the same for men everywhere. That is what men want in a woman because it takes a lot of humility to not take the things of life, positive or negative, for granted.

 

34:04 - I mean think about it. Like even even from like a sexual act point of view or a sexual scenario, two lovers in the bedroom, right? Male/female and like it takes a lot of trust and it takes a lot of respect to trust a man to enter into your body, right? Or look at it this way, one of the reasons, you know, why it's so important, why it's so symbolic, the act of oral sex just by itself, you know, that a woman, you know, tastes a man etc. That is the greatest sign of respect when she takes him into his mouth for example. It is an example of reverence. She is revering her lover. She is revering her man in the act of oral sex for example, right? That's just like the most profound example I can come up with, but she's literally revering him. She is showing him deep profound respect. This is why I teach in season 4 episode one and two it's about love and respect. Because without love and respect, love for the women respect for the men, that's why women need to show reverence. They need to show reverence and revere their men. That deep profound respect. Because without that deep profound respect, there will not be a relationship and she's not being mature either. She's not the mature lover. She's an immature lover. She could be the addicted lover or the impotent lover. The seductive or the frigid, right? That's the problem. That's the issue and when I say seductive I mean that in a very negative way from seducing man to man to man to man and trading up for, you know, this man and then that man and that man and then they all fail because they're men. They're just flawed. We're all flawed. Men are flawed and sometimes we're victims of circumstances outside our control, but then you dump us on our head because we're not making the money anymore. You see what I'm saying? That's just an example, right? So, in summary, in order to gain the mature feminine, the lover archetype, to finish off the four archetypes, you as women need to revere life. Be thankful. Show gratitude. Do not take the bad things or the good things for granted. Do not take life for granted. Humble yourselves, do not take any of these things for granted, and then as a result of that show reverence for life. Show reverence for your man, show reverence for your lovers, because it is through reverence and not revelry that you will obtain the mature feminine, the lover archetype.

 

36:42 - If you found this lecture useful, helpful, educational, or enlightening please subscribe to the channel here on YouTube or on the podcast. If you would like to support us and what we're doing with the CSJ community, please head over to our patreon. It's patreon.com/csjoseph If you'd like to join our discord group to get in on our Q&A sessions, please do so. The link is in the description below. If you'd like to come see me in the flesh in the Bay Area or when I'm flying abroad outside of California, which is consistent, please go to our meetup group, which is also in the link in the description below. Thank you very much for being with me through this very tough lecture series season 13. It's been one of the hardest pieces of work that I've put together, but I do it because I love all of you. All of you women, if it were up to me, I would wipe the tears from all of your faces and while I'd do it for the men and I hold men accountable, it is especially important that it is also for the women. I'm not here to just, you know, show favoritism to one side or the other. No, I'm holding everyone equally accountable. That's what season 13 is all about. To help the mature masculine and the mature feminine actually rise up and become what it is. To rise up out of their immaturity and into maturity so that we could change the world for the better and have a better tomorrow for the next seven generations. So, that our children are no longer fatherless. So, that our children know who they are and have their identity and as a result of knowing who they are and knowing themselves, finally they're able to find themselves and then they're able to love themselves and have self-respect so that they can love their neighbor as themselves. Because that is how we are going to change the world, to save it, and have a better tomorrow for all of us, not just our children, but for all of us. So, thank you very much and I'll see you folks probably later tonight. Have a good day.

 

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C. S. Joseph

Founder, CEO - CSJ.life

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